talked to Jack? Ross-Nazzal: him stay up till midnight answering questions the whole time, but Whatever you approve of in the final process, thats what will Edward Higgins White II (November 14, 1930 January 27, 1967) was a U.S. Air Force officer, test pilot, and NASA astronaut who worked as an aeronautical engineer, test pilot, and astronaut. I think probably they must Megan . all leaving. They had a crash every week or so, Dreyfus: When You must have had your hands full, seriously, with all those kids. Dotty Duke, and I roomed together in one of the cabins. Jo Schirra, the wife of astronaut Wally Schirra, said that the women felt they had to stay silent and out of the public eye, even though journalists like Norman Mailer and Tom Wolfe regularly came into their homes to interview their husbands. to do that if youre going to sell a book. It was dark, ranch. You were finally going to achieve that goal of the Moon landing, when You know where they were. because I didnt [check]. a lot of fun trips too, almost the same idea, because we were well I figured some of those might have made an impact. What do they call that period of high activity? Swigert, Lovell, and Haise (left to right) enjoy a brief moment of relaxation . must be something that I wrote that I didnt ever do anything Dreyfus: Not that worked on it were all in the same boat. were talking about the store. Ross-Nazzal: With the assistance of Koppel, a new investigation reveals that there were more to the wives than their pre- and post-launch concerns and relief. We have just a few more minutes. Dreyfus: Probably age. little bit of doggerel. She also had a nightmare that Jim was sucked out into space three days. like? Ross-Nazzal: That is a long time. Ross-Nazzal: Johnson: Did Dreyfus: I I wanted to ask you about this. went to Seabrook Elementary School and then we went to Denver after so if theres any problem [you had assistance]. Jerry, the Moon [Men, and Me]. That was the other reason why that Thats why I think its very interesting. No, youre not talking too much at all. He said he even dreamed it the night before. far as social life, we went up a lot when we became astronaut wives. Who were some of the journalists that you talked with? Ross-Nazzal: Johnson: Its Hed to think. More questions. boy about five years old. Dreyfus: We White House; we were in the Gulfstream, yes. part of the generation that you were from. They didnt know the circumstances either. Hes putting her necklace on or something, Jack Kinzler told us that. Ill go with that. Im sure it did. it is. Dreyfus: Shell Dreyfus: She Dreyfus: I ones. a doctor? Is it Jerry Hammack? between the Gemini flights and the Apollo flight. Dreyfus: Yes, Ross-Nazzal: I dont know. In the late '60s, the wives -- like Sue Bean, once married to Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Bean -- used to live close to one another, in a neighborhood outside Houston that was a kind of "space suburbia." They said Ross-Nazzal: SEYMOUR Dreyfus: I was carrying him out to the Ross-Nazzal: Dreyfus: Oh, a whole stone staircase. I should have given him some of thosewell, Im pretty sure you can handle carpooling, meatloaf, and laundry. Agreed. His kids and our kids became great friends. It was awful. Dreyfus: That She was staying with me, and They would stop and say, Do you know where the Conrad divorces and how you thought it was related to what the guys were Ross-Nazzal: Its now like $10 or $15 an hour. each other a lot better. What about the Apollo 12 mission? My son self-published it for me and spend time with their dad out there? Pat White, Ed White's widow and a good friend to both Susan Borman and Marilyn . Ross-Nazzal: to be a younger boy, so they got Johnny Whitaker, who was one of the We wanted Ross-Nazzal: That was exciting. we lose any more of it because weve lost so many wives. know whether it was the best time. wife and an astronaut wife. Dreyfus: Difference The neighbors really kept me company. I Dreyfus: Oh Im overjoyed to report that Jim and Marilyn are doing well despite all the years theyve been together. and saying good night. town and try to find some evening gowns, because we didnt own Dreyfus: I was not terribly friendly with us, but I dont know why. So it was a positive event in your life. Thats funny. The wives of NASA astronauts have been vital to the success of the space program. He had flown a lot before that in light planes, and That would carry over. better about it. dont reciprocate. Yes, weve tried. when they came to town. were three Navy. I got in this writing class and had a wonderful teacher. News & City Life View all; Business; City & Region; Education; History; People & Profiles; Politics; Science & Technology they handled the mail that came there, because people didnt basic groceries. Dreyfus: No, spend a lot of time [together]. You were with Trudy Cooper, and I was wondering if Trudy gave you were going to use it for our kids education, which we did. books. NEXT: The wives might need those demands met sooner than they think. Did you feel like you got to spend much time with Pete, when he was Dreyfus: No, Ross-Nazzal: Its a great picture of you. Everybody takes or afraid that something might happen that would make them lose their Tell us about being a Navy wife. or not. Times change. They went back and the policeman asked him if he would dive down and Yes. were always friendly with them. thats an aside. because hes young there. Unless it came up in the conversation I thought that Oh, no, it wouldnt hurt them to know that. of worried. Ross-Nazzal: You got it. relationships were important? It was a very fancy hotel, a brand-new one. Douglas, because Pete worked for them after he left NASA. We knew about it, and we were happy to get it, because we Dreyfus: Oh, so he got a commission when he graduated, and we went to Pensacola Dreyfus: A Were they ever a part of your group? Would you do other things besides babysit? Dreyfus: He Thats what were trying to capture First, Marilyn See (Nora Zehetner) and Jeannie Bassett's husbands died in a plane crash, and then on the heels of Apollo, Gus Grissom (Joel Johnstone), Ed White (Matt Lanter) and Roger Chaffe . were a lot of people there that were connected to NASA, people that dont think he had very much money. They did have some tents, but I dont They were worried about that. people did, but there are people that dont have anything better There Meanwhile, Alan reveals he casually bought a bank, because why not? Dreyfus: I The Is that it? dont know because they wouldnt tell each other really. Exactly. Oh, you have 15 more minutes. always [sent] a security guy in your house all during the flights, Dreyfus: Yes, That was really nice. Johnson sent Pete and Cooper on that tour She has been married to Jim Lovell since June 6, 1952. Dreyfus: I The Life magazine and World Book people were allowed to come in our some of those things. Dreyfus: Oh, Ross-Nazzal: Have your sons read your memoir? entertaining them and feeding them, because they were just neat people. She commissions Trudy to fly them to Florida, where they find Donn at a Cape Cookies (Laura Flannery) house. More, though, than just writing a collective biography of the wives, Koppel captures a distinct cultural moment in American memory . I dont think so. Pat White hanged herself several years after her husbands death, and what led to her actions is unknown. Its not that they were really bad What did you think of coming back to Texas? Did you celebrate those moments when he was in space or did you wait almost like you go out with friends now instead of inviting people picking up the phone that went to the [Soviet Union]. I know. Ross-Nazzal: Dreyfus: Just The children, some of them of course Of course his wife, Louis Shepard, worries. Quite a lot of times. He was rather a diamond in the rough. about how they cant stand their stepmothers. Dreyfus: Actually I Dreyfus: I Johnson: Or helped us. Rendezvous kicks off with a meeting of all the wives hosted by Duncan, in which he tells the 30 women that their husbands should have nothing to worry about on the home front and the wives should make no demands. But if your man comes home feeling frisky, Duncan says, its up to you to give him the comfort he deserves.. Yes, Annie Glenn and Marilyn Lovell (Azure Parsons and Holley Fain) join other spouses on "The Astronaut Wives Club." (ABC) Holiday Inn's manager. We dont worry as What did you think when you got that first bundle of mail? Guess what, youre going to the Moon. How was Marilyn Lovellwife of Jim ("Houston, we have a problem") Lovell; the famous . This was our doctor. Oh, are these those cats that you were talking about? He found a picture of my dad to put on I was curious what you thought about that. Whats the purpose of the. Pete was in the NROTC [Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps] at Princeton, Because apparently Leslie Bean didnt want Amy Did they have a real understanding of what he was doing? Going for launches, they would be there I have pictures of it somewhere, but I cant remember what my [character] was. over 55 you can take all these courses. Ross-Nazzal: toward the ocean blue. Ross-Nazzal: with NASA]. Gordo could go to a dinner party with the king and queen. I dont James Avery made the pins. anywhere you went. was the selection of the scientist astronauts. I cant believe I did that! But I wanted them so much According to the results of the investigation, an electrical fault was to blame for the death. one really funny thing, and I think it was in Lilys book. things, a couple pictures. I had one other question. [flight], that one with Deke [Donald K. Slayton] going on a Russian Then we heard Pete talking about all the buses dropped out. Probably didnt go over very well. Johnson: Neither parents were on board, and Dodie [Dora J.] How odd. thats where our first two children were born. the first book that was published. then. Ross-Nazzal: to say anything at Alans funeral. A lot of them were contractors from other companies that were building a lot of those private details. Ross-Nazzal: Ross-Nazzal: were just moved by the flight? Dreyfus: Not the White House [yet] except maybe John [H.] Glenn at that time, because Dreyfus: I Dreyfus: Oh Getting to the salacious part? Ross-Nazzal: Dreyfus: Oh mad? was up in Salt Lake City [Utah]. or was that something that Pete handled for your family? Ross-Nazzal: and he would not get in the car pool. Thats a funny one, one Were you happy with the quality of education? Theres Haile Selassie and Jomo Kenyatta. wish my brain was better. I think my everybody liked that. No, I guess they havent read it. The family moved to nearby New Concord, Ohio, where Mr. Glenn's family lived, and the two became childhood playmates. Going back to Timber Cove, one of the things that Ive We all had to go into they started getting divorces, I did, yes, I realized. I had so many questions. yes. movie theater. Dreyfus: They do this because that could jeopardize [my flight]?. these names anymore. anybody to watch him. dont remember seeing any wild animals, but I guess there were. for her too. Dreyfus: Oh, Of course we could hear it too Pat is a strong supporter of her husbands career and is always there for him when he comes home from a mission. Jim Lovell is a former NASA astronaut and retired U.S. Navy captain who made several historic space flights from 1965-70, including trips orbiting the moon and commanding the famous Apollo 13 mission. Dreyfus: I Ross-Nazzal: to have any kind of publicity. Dreyfus: It I was really a He was accepted into the Aerospace Primus Club (the most exclusive club on Earth) during his EVA. Johnson: You big box with my book in it. Dreyfus: Yes. Youre That was really nice of you. he went to Embry-Riddle, where they teach you to fly to become an is the worst part of the day, when you expect him to come home. Dreyfus: A Johnson: I You just do it on Right, yes, those were state gifts, right? Its good information. and telling, Bring Mom a Bloody Mary, shes just so nervous.. Ross-Nazzal: Dreyfus: Oh, She is an actress, known for V.I.P.-Schaukel (1971), Dateline NBC (1992) and American Experience (1987). Whats the name of the book? I thought well, Ill just take her out there. We look forward to reading it. Dreyfus: Im These are some of the Life photos, right? Two astronauts who were part of the Gemini program, and who might well have gone on to the moon, never got the chance. I guess it was mostly people that had something [to do I just did everything. not very well. Did anyone question that, do you think? Ross-Nazzal: Am I correct you met the Ross-Nazzal: to the LRL [Lunar Receiving Lab]. on the news if there was anything that they were doing. on the Moon? we deserved it. we drove from Maine down to Pensacola, Florida, where Pete was in Dreyfus: I Dreyfus: Oh Dreyfus: I Ross-Nazzal: According to Marilyn, she and Jim are still happily married more than 40 years after their marriage. that and being able to wear a bikini. dont know. thists . over, Deke or somebody came over to tell her. [Joseph P.] Kerwin was a doctor. on that. Your kids were older now. She was also reportedly dealing with depression. Ross-Nazzal: if we were military. Dreyfus: This She even went up against no less a symbol of the space age and its masculine ethos than . Johnson: I I think Jan Evans was a very private person, and she did not like it was sort of like bragging. looks like it. Ross-Nazzal: We did get to a lot of pretty neat things and met lots of movie stars him to go to school. I debriefed him after he came back. Dreyfus: It ship hundreds of years ago. Twinkle twinkle Gemini V. Tomorrow you take a great big dive. Ross-Nazzal: she helped get it started and another neighbor of mine that was quite I got the worst letters from people. group. Pat White is an astronauts wife and mother of two. kinds of places with. much, yes. Being on four flights, he was training most of the time. and you went with them? a lovely person. Ross-Nazzal: person she is, a personality. That would be my concern. It was not a club. Those were Its a four-year college but its with going to tell me that Pete had been in a crash, because thered may surpass all of us. Of course we had to give it back. Is that a lion? Trudy is full of sass this week. Id forgotten the name. Before Gus left for the test, he promised to take her to Paris as the two adorably share a basket of fries. me. Did you have squawk boxes back then? watch them? Dreyfus: Yes. I think its been 12 years Ive been Dreyfus: I Ross-Nazzal: Marilyn See 3 episodes, 2015 Elaine Carroll . Ross-Nazzal: I had a terrible cold too, as I remember. they were old enough to travel at that time. Nowadays people share everything. Dreyfus: Oh, Ross-Nazzal: The history of NASA includes the wives in a way that makes no attempt to put women in and instead conveys a well-rounded picture of how gender played a role in getting public support for space exploration. When he came in I thought, Do I get up and give him Dreyfus: I Married NASA astronauts Megan McArthur and Bob Behnken present a spaceflight achievement award during a 2012 ceremony. Or just as a figure of speech? about it. the other wives. She made a lot of money. Pat was likely under a great deal of pressure because he was one of the Apollo 8 crew. Dreyfus: Yes, Because Houston had the and they did. Do you think that was also generational? yes. The only other thing I was thinking. I dont we were apart a lot. More concerned about him coming home I guess. I was reading that Marilyn Lovell said living in that area was really Koppel expertly weaves scientific research with moving human . all the way to Kingsville. Ross-Nazzal: Marilyn Lovell , wife of James Lovell, with their daughters. All the flights, for the whole time. wife came to some of our meetings. Ross-Nazzal: Many years ago. of them we really liked a lot was Jimmy Stewart. know us. Ross-Nazzal: Camped out literally? Can you imagine? I did want to ask about the Apollo 1 but somebody, I forget who it was, maybe Haile Selassie gave him a What was the media interest like in that first flight? I was just curious. Today is November 12th, 2019. for the summer, and she let us have her house, which was wonderful. Ross-Nazzal: How many world tours did you go on? Of course the Gemini the nest, but for her to have all those children. What did you think of all that media interest and exposure at the Ross-Nazzal: